brent metcalfe excommunicated

As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. Best wishes, Brent! I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Serious insight and analysis of the religion Im trying to fit into my new, authentic life. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. Thank you for this very interesting presentation. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true We were both greenies at the same time. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Is there going to be a part 3? Awesome music, right? Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). OMAHA, Neb. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. by | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Coming! A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. Oh, that would be great! Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. I cant wait to listen to the second half! And how many. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? what happens if i ignore a ccj; o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. My question to Brent is during or after authoring/editing New Approaches to the Book Mormon, did he have other or similar spiritual experiences that confirmed the historical facts (which may be viewed as counter experiences to those earlier in the church)? What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. I have question on the Book of Abraham. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. I hope to move on some day as well. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. It was so, so interesting. Brents words deepened my own thoughts on God, spiritually and humanity. Learn how your comment data is processed. This was an important, affecting interview. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. D&C 76:2021). I happen to believe so. For more information, please see our The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. Very informative. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. To those people like me, however, who find themselves on the butt end of his speeches, may consider him to come across as aggressive, brash and unsympathetic. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. What do you attribute this decline to? I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. So, so good. [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. I have that info direct from Mac himself. After all, we are human! So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. I have some insights into that. 2 Introduction at court. She related all this to me and my companion. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. Roger that. Let me clarify. and our This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. As soon as we can! This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. Honestly, incredible work. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. I was a writer for 7th East Press. ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. He has already saved her from choking on several occasions. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Talk about ADD. Thank you John and Brent. Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. Should have added one more minor thing. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. This is what led me here! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? And great questions John. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? pigella miraculous ladybug power. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. Can you offer any insight to this? I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Ive heard there might. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. brent metcalfe excommunicated. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. So glad Brent. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent Truth or legend? On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. Oh. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. This is one of my all-time favorites. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! Its great to find all this background information. And much was going on. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. Long question, sorry ! A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . I teared up with Brent during that part. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. But those were interesting times! Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. Very cool, any personal stories youd like to share? Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. What are your views on the work of Hugh Nibley? What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Cookie Notice That makes more sense. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. :). Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Contributions. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. Do you attend church anyplace else? I am waiting patiently for part 3. This is definitely a not-miss interview. Im sure this applies to other beliefs as well. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! Youve used it well Brent. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church).

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