Hillsongsfounder, Brian Houston, released a statement saying he did not want the 30-minute interview with Driscoll to distract from the larger five-day conference. His most shocking was when just before he stepped down from the pulpit and was in the midst of many scandals, he did a sermon on the many mistakes of Jesus. When I read your comment, this suddenly popped into my head. Imagine that. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. I am also pretty sure the accounts of his instrumental role in bringing Russian nuclear-armed ballistic missiles to Cuba to be used against the US were not purely fabricated, so I did not believe I was disseminating false information at the time I wrote that. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). He further states: A door was closed to who I was and a door was opened to who I became. I can't help but wonder whether Driscoll is talking about Paul or himself. The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. As Lydia has wisely pointed out, cult survivors are all at different stages in their recovery. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. Then I would take notice that there might be something to their repentance. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. So, basically he functioned as Howard Stern for Christians. I'm not sure I find that expansion of "serious sin" cheating? love to hear that sermon. stephen the shepherd is dying. It was clear to me that Marks attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. It was so heretical that even the MH staff saw issues and took it down. Welcome Home to Church Online! Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. Just like Jerry Springer would invite the Duggers on his show after the scandal? No, there is no reason to believe CJ committed actual crimes. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. it sounds like you have a story of sorts. Just show-biz. The ones leaving arent stupid. i would rather be in fellowship with people that realise they still have sin but instead of rationalizing or blameshifting, show fruit of the Spirit in overcoming it. The women say as part of the program they were taught to believe that they were possessed by the devil, and have since been forced to receive years of professional psychiatric treatment. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. "But we can speak and encourage people to vote in terms of the morality of the issue.". The resistance is to Jesus. I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. THANK YOU! -Katelyn The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. Ive seen desensitizing have the desired effect and its not pretty. It was just a matter of time before New Calvinism found a way to resurrect its leading icon. Youre not one of us. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses also, It came swiftly and with great effect. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) I was reading related posts and noticed hes playing the martyr role as Driscoll did. that is not walking in love that is running a business, and i am not a judge. ". James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. Well-meaning people are attempting to put Jesus in structures that do not foster the expression of his life in the saints. This is either a complete falsehood or shows their utter lack of interest in the facts, because, as HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, celebrity pastor unto celebrity pastor is brother. jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. its a little hard to swallow that he knew nothing about Driscolls behaviour. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. vengance is where you make someone pay. I need to talk to the president, he may be unaware what some of his professors are teaching. Im fairly certain MD would enjoy being categorized with a so called revolutionary. 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). Im not kidding. "The mayor was not in favor of this ordinance," Lindell told his congregation. Over the next two Sundays he will continue to remind people to vote Yes and to take a Yes sign for their yard. The issue, however, is character, evidenced by a pattern of behavior reported with regard to bullying behavior, narcissitic traits, etc. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. . now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. Yep. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. He was a mass murdering thug. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. In February 2008, less than two months after his promise not to abandon our orphans, we received a letter from Scott Thomas. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? Im so used to the megas Velcro bars where they only care about you if they can slap some Velcro on you to make you come back so you can become a tithe payer. What is the biblical prescription for sinning Elders? I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. I would hope we should higher standards than that. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. when mercy ministries was investigated at hillsong amazingly the leader Nancy Acorn opened up shop in the u.s. and has many supporters among the christian circuit Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? So many damaged lives. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. He told me Tuesday that he has every right to campaign for repeal in a sermon. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. Sopy Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. This one was different. I dont equate it with forgiveness at all. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. Not a fan but many are. They didnt fail. It is all choreographed and it works! The opposition is to Jesus. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. In their case, they just use Jesus as marketing tool to sell their own image.It is not like they have not had access to truth. Now I am working on something for Monday. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. Great insight. "It is possible for someone who has been a life-long alcoholic to stop. However, we also see that David and Samuel were permitted to speak out publicly against Saul in truth. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. Totally. But what does that mean in the larger picture? James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas services. Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. We are passionate about . Driscoll, IMHO, is completely unsuited for any position of authority. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. @ Nancy: Kids will experience life-giving messages and TONS of fun as they watch content created just for them. I dont think he would agree he is doing well at all. Why is Guidepost Solutions now involved? He is not going to go run to a car dealership the minute he gets out of jail. After surrendering more than 10% of your gross income for years you are tens of thousands of dollars into them at that point and that can really bolster all the cognitive dissonance you feel and strangely work to prevent your leaving. pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Maybe the apostles did not want to be found by a major persecutor of the movement and Saul/Paul had no alternative but to put some distance between himself and his previous life until things calmed down a bit. Six months for Driscoll does not represent later in life, give him another ten or twenty years. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Based on my experience, this public story should be seen as somewhat inevitable in how they operate. How can a reasonable person look past that? when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. There is no uncertainty in that. I agree that if the object is to fill seats and keep the money flowing in, then Driscoll and the others are doing a great job. I recently darkened the doors of a very small church in another city. He is listening for your litl sweet voice! He can be forgiven. You cant speak in tongues? @ numo: Who would have thought that the message of the Cross for ALL people (the whosoever wills) would be diminished in pentecostal ranks?! @ sam: Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. I didnt realize tens of thousands had already left. Not a fan but many are. We will definitely check it out. I knew I was being set up when I watched MDs embedded church video posted here at TWW. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em&app=desktop. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. Plus I put up some Mozart for you guys. rather than come in glory he came in humility. he sees God. pic.twitter.com/FwaVnYEZIi. He was an abusing thug. ++++++++++++++++. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. forgiveness means its paid in full. Theres a persistent rumor that hes going to bring his show here to Phoenix. Did you miss a tithe payment? Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? Pews are in the old megas. I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. As I was getting ready for church last Sunday morning, I quickly checked my Facebook feed for any news and saw the this headline (see screen shot below): I 'shared' the article from an Australian news source, along with a comment: "Mark Driscoll needs to step away from the microphone for a long season of contemplation.". Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. And i honestly had no idea that that phrase was in there. But Christians are under the New Covenant and the NT calls Christians to expose false teachers, not facilitate their cover ups. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. So now is the time ta share with kind folks the destination of their eternal soul? Video comes off to me as MD justifying his return to the pulpit. was paul asking for forgiveness? He could continue the stance that we could not leave because we were under discipline and offend the large donor, or he could let us leave in peace and not offend the donor. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. And how many know you cant not everything you read on the internet is true, and so as a church I just I just know this, as a church we want to be careful that we dont ever put ourself in a situation where were shooting the wounded, and you know God has laid Mark and Grace upon Debbie and my heart repeatedly over the last several months. Members are guests? Is this similar to Radical Chic? Matthew 27:33-34 I know historical accounts can be skewed. I have heard Marks message several times now and have some concerns. He should not be making a buck off Jesus in any way, shape, or form, IMO. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. Like God might show up. I am not the most wonderful guy in the world, i am not a saint, but when i asked Jesus to forgive me and fill me with His Spirit i changed inside. In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. mode. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. Thanks for your help Numo! There are now more single adults in the U.S.A. than married couples, but churches (even the mega ones) keep going after the married folks. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? I call that tragic because there are still a lot of honest pastors and churches out there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. Thanks for that recommendation. Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31866. It is an issue of protecting other people. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. . I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. Its all PR spin, because they got caught with their (or, pardon the metaphor, MDs) pants down. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. It is ok to ask for openess and transparancy. Che badgered/shamed the workers that receiving a pat on the back from their boss/comrade for increasing the quota should be enough for them to continue to increase production without any chance of being compensated for it monetarily. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. Adultery, stealing, cheating, being abusive, being a drunkard can also keep you out of heaven.". If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. @ Bob M: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. Also, as Driscolls friend, John Piper, wrote: pastors are not professionals. He can be forgiven. . Are you not voting? Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. Not me, not you, and definitely not Mark Driscoll. Glassdoor provides our best prediction for total pay in today's job market, along with other types of pay like cash bonuses, stock bonuses, profit sharing, sales commissions, and tips. And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. That was not my intention. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. Galatians 5:22-23. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. A friend of the family stated the same. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. What am I saying? Mark' Driscoll's message has been uploaded on the church website, and we have included it here should you choose to watch it. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. You sure would think so, but to quote H.L. Where are all the former higly paid speaking gigs that were constant and kept his calendar full with travel? Years ago, he spoke from the pulpit against the expansion of casino gambling in Missouri. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. I cant see those photos without also thinking of the images weve all seen of the impossible circumstances our hospitals are battling every day, Goddard began in a series of tweets. No. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas It is the normalization of sociopathy. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. The kid starts expecting it. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. Prayer Requests He said that his hands were tied. She came to me in sorrow that she walked away from a relationship with Agathos after that Mars Hill warning.. I am thinking visitors, right? @ Nancy: HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, i tweeted: He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they haven't asked for forgiveness? @ Bridget: Do these Pentecostal leaders believe that there is a doppelgnger out there who tied MD up in a basement then impersonated him, swearing and saying horrible things from the pulpit? A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. You might be onto something there Sopy. If anything, Chandler has to present himself as the UnMark to a degree that few connect dots. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. If we were after money we would need to time our exit before Driscoll pulled the roof in again. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. District. Here me in this, the issue is Jesus. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. Somebody cited a study that the most common characteristic of a Sociopath (well over 90%) was successfully Playing the Victim Card when caught. Do my eyes deceive me? AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. As I listened, I couldn't help but wonder where things stand between Mark and those he threw under the bus. The introduction sounded like it was coming from a caretaker role. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. If you take his quotes about his economic policies in Cuba and substitute covenant or biblical Gospel he sounds about the same as the pastors we are discussing. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. @ sam: I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. I can appreciate that sentiment Gram3 and I applaud it. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. That is largely what TWW does, ISTM. -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. Dont give into his deception. mode. I know how hard false teaching is to bear. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Elders thatthat sin are to be rebuke before all, that others also may fear. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. All allegation deserve to be investigated with openess and transparancy. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. (glorifies paul. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. Did Paul plagiarize? His statement is factually incorrect. He is a draw. The church, according to the web site, was founded by three individuals, Mark Driscoll, Leif Moi and Mike Gunn. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation).
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